Should you be paid for the time it takes to boot your computer?
by Brad Linder Nov 20th 2008 at 5:30PM
There's no question that we all want computers that boot up and shut down more quickly. While a fresh install of Windows XP might boot as quickly as 30 seconds on some computers, the more applications you load onto your computer, the slower it will boot. Things get even worse with Windows Vista which loads about as quickly as paint dries. While Microsoft and other OS makers are working to cut boot times, if you're using a current generation operating system, odds are you spend at least a few minutes every day waiting for your computer to startup and shut down.Now here's the big question of the day - if this is your work computer we're talking about, should you be paid for that time? Apparently employees at seveal companies including AT7T and Cigna have filed lawsuits alleging that they weren't paid for the time it took to turn their computers on and off each day, a process which they claim takes 15 to 30 minutes.
The employees say they should be paid for their time, because they're doing other work related activities while the computer loads, while employers argue that just as often, they aren't. But you know what? It's not like the employees are lying in bed sleeping at home. It's hardly their fault their bosses installed software that takes for-friggin-ever to boot. Not that I'm taking sides in this dispute.
What do you think? Sound off in the comments.
[via TaxProf Blog and Gizmodo]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Disk4mat said 6:26PM on 11-20-2008
My first thought is. If you dont like the terms and conditions you are free to seek employment else where. I've been on both sides of the fence and have to take the employers side.
While some people might use thier down time for work related activities, the majority will use down time for social activities.
You apply for a job and are hired. You know the company policies. You agree to 'all of the above' as dictaed by HR. 3 months later and it becomes your 'right' to work for the company and you feel you deserve something more than what your getting. But looking for another job that meets your wants and needs is out of the question?
Employees are quick to say the employer is unfair for this reason or that one. What about all the times people go to lunch and float back in 10-15 minutes late? Or the guys over there talking about the football game? Is that not fair to the employer and the other people who are working hard?
Im going to pass on the 'going away party' in the break room on company time. Maybe if I give my employer the same consideration I would expect in return, I might see it when pay raises or merits are distributed.
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x said 3:01PM on 11-21-2008
Sure, take the employer's side. Complain that employees abuse company policy, and use work time for social or personal tasks. Oh boo hoo, the poor employer!
Only one thing: Employers do have a way of dealing with that. They have "performance improvement programs", stern talks, warnings, layoffs, and firings. Every company I've worked for blatantly states that they don't even need a reason to fire you; they can do so at will or whim.
If employers don't monitor their employees closely enough, or don't take appropriate actions, whose fault is that?
Look for another job you say. That's kind of like saying "If you're in a burning house and find it too hot, find another burning house." The point being that more or less, all employers are the same. Not only that, but is it really that easy to find jobs these days? (Oh, I know, if it is, we should just go out and get two or three Ph.D.s.)
But I'm sure you're OK with all the dirty tricks employers take advantage of. Things like keeping you at 34 hours per week (or whatever the case may be), just so you don't qualify for benefits. Like demanding you be in at 8:00 to be paid, but not paying if you stay past 5:00. Like ridiculously-low increases that don't even keep pace with the cost of living. Like adding responsibilities repeatedly, without adding pay. Like insisting on two weeks' notice upon employee-initiated leave, but giving exactly zero notice when they do the dumping. I could go on all day.
The employer/employee power balance is the most skewed there is in modern society, bar none.
Peter said 3:10PM on 11-21-2008
@x - Don't blame the rest of us because you have a crappy job.
Don said 1:25AM on 1-19-2009
The system is set up to protect and benefit employers. As a simple tool, the employees get to do whatever their bosses want. It doesn't matter what you were told when you were hired.
Why are employers like that? Because people will put up with just about anything. They are weak, spineless insects that only want a paycheck and don't give a crap about society. There are plenty of people willing to take advantage of others, and by working for them, you're showing society just what you're made of.
If you're strong, you go work for yourself or form a partnership with people like yourself. You come up with your own revolutionary ideas or find someone that can. Don't think you can compete with a huge corporation? Then you're missing the point and you should just go work for them, you spineless...
Anyway, the economy is already falling apart because everyone is just willing to bow down before the super-corporations and fork over their wallet.
What can we do? I'm willing to live in a shack if I have to. Are you willing to give up your creature comforts to make this a better world? Probably not...
Davalos said 6:26PM on 11-20-2008
My Vista loads in about 30 seconds, same install for about a year now, its the hardware just as much as it is the software. If you think it takes as long as paint dries, perhaps you shouldn't be painting with such crappy hardware. I count the second I press the elevator button the minute I start working
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Loren said 9:16PM on 11-20-2008
Same here. I've had this laptop (with Vista preinstalled) for nearly two years now, I have a metric ton of programs installed, but Vista still loads and boots up in a snap every time. I don't notice any of the lag that I used to have on XP.
I think a lot of people like to bash Vista just because it's the 'in' thing to do...
x said 3:01PM on 11-21-2008
My XP boots in about 20-22 seconds (to Desktop), and I have 11.5-GB of used space on the Windows/program partition... I use those 8-10 seconds to laugh at Vista users.
gerry said 6:42PM on 11-20-2008
Heh... just put your system to sleep at the end of the day, turn it on, unlock the workstation... within seconds. I really do not see the point to this at all.
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Mary said 6:46PM on 11-20-2008
MOST DEFINITELY! This is an issue I've already mentioned to my Supervisor. My work computer only takes about 3-5 minutes to boot up each day - but that amounts to 20-30 minutes a week that I am not paid for. Since my employer is being really strict about absolutely NOT doing any work related tasks while "off the clock" (we clock in on the computer), how does it make sense that I have to turn on the computer, wait for it to boot, enter a password, wait for it to process, wait for the (automatic) internet connection to complete, then open the software that we use to clock in, enter a user name and password, then wait again for that to process - that time adds up!
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jason said 7:53PM on 11-20-2008
@mary
oh please, are you going tell us that you've NEVER socialized with a co-worker while on the clock? you've never surfed the web to read a story, check your email or send an i.m.? and as a previous poster mentioned, have you never come back from lunch a few minutes late or attended an in-office party in the break room?
are you docking your time card for those things? i'd wager that those 20-30 minutes a week that "add up" are also countered by all those minutes that you spend not working when you are clocked in.
cry me a river.
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Jason M. Hirst said 7:53PM on 11-20-2008
Totally agree with Gerry about the sleep mode (or hibernate).
Just press the button, walk away, come back next day, press the button and back to work.
SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Mike said 9:16PM on 11-20-2008
Sleep mode.
Better network admins.
Moar cheese.
These are all solutions.
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chrisaroz said 9:16PM on 11-20-2008
This isn't about just booting up. When I worked for a large ISP in sales I was required to arrive15 minutes before my shift to get my computer up and running. No sleep mode, no hibernate because many large corporations require you to cold boot every morning so they can push put updates. So this isn't about someone trying to get paid an extra 30 seconds a day, it's about getting paid for the time you work,
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PS_4 said 9:16PM on 11-20-2008
Is the employee at work? Yes. Therefore he should get payed, period. Not the employee's fault that the company can't buy faster computers.
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Mike said 9:16PM on 11-20-2008
There was a court case (may have been SCOTUS, can't remember) where workers at a plant or mine wanted to be paid for the time it took them to put on their protective suits and safety equipment. The workers won that case, I would think this one will go the same way.
Ian said 2:22PM on 11-22-2008
There was also a case in NY 2 years or so back that an employer fired someone for surfing the web too much in downtime. The employee sued based on the fact that other people get coffee and read the paper, and the courts agree with the employee that if you can't fire someone for reading the paper (you can't) then you can't fire them for surfing the web 'too much' at work. I don't really remember their justification for it, but I thought the whole thing was stupid. If you're not doing work, then you have every reason to expect some kind of action to be taken about it, paper or electronic.
Dumas said 9:41PM on 11-20-2008
Windows+L
or
ctrl+alt+delete - lock computer
You come in the next day you do the same - clock in and go about your day. End of the week shut down - and on Monday you come early and boot up.
If you are clocking in online then 99% of the time there is an internet connection - and no one can tell me that they havent browsed the web while on company time - companys account for this.
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Judd said 10:10PM on 11-20-2008
Where I am a tech, the vast majority of reasons for prolonged boot times is due almost exclusively to the software installed (against the terms of use) AFTER we have placed it on a desk and walk away from it.
WeatherBug
Local Weather Live update
Yahoo
Aim
MySpace Im
screen saver programs
Toolbars get downloaded which install other things, as well as spyware.
Without fail when i respond to a trouble ticket to give TLC to a slow booting computer, I turn these off, and in most cases remove them, and then get griped at - now I'm the bad guy.
Not long ago i worked in a manufacturing company - the first thing we had to do was prep our machines to run: oiling the machines, making sure they were ready for the first production run - if we wanted the production bonus, we did these things PRIOR to being "on the clock" - little difference than waiting for a machine to boot. I suggest turning on your machine - grabbing that morning cup of java, and when you get back log in. We frown on leaving machines on overnight.
As for how long it takes to shut down.. who cares? Hit the power button and go home.
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ryzza007 said 7:55AM on 11-21-2008
My Vista boots up nice and quick - the user logon sound plays before the Windows startup sound finishes.
You can always Hibernate your PC for faster starts in the morning (recommended you restart no less than once a week) or setup your desktop PC to boot automatically 15 mins before you arrive at work.
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Rob said 7:55AM on 11-21-2008
Well like mentioned at&t and cigna. i have worked for at&t and they dont let us hibernate or leave our pc's just locked. they are required to turn off their pc's in case there are any updates to the software. and it is a pretty lengthy process to setup in the morning. they dont use vista or even xp. they use windows nt. so once you log in, then you have to log in to the different systems that are required to manage account and information, and its not just one or two. they have different systems for different processes and all of them have to be up and ready to use when the first call comes in and all that has to go thru certain vpn's and logins that takes what seems like a lifetime especially if some odd 30-40, 000 employs are accessing the same thing. and while people say that we talk or socialize, its not alway so. calls are coming in one right after the other after the other. you have 10 to 15 seconds between calls to finish up the last come before the other call comes in..
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