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Cry me a river Opera. Buying Vista is already confusing enough for a customer. Just imagine if Microsoft had to sell another version without IE as the web browser. Firefox is gaining on IE, what's the matter Opera?

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So without a web browser how will the user download an alternative browser, unless its optional at install, as for bundling another browser with it, its their operating system theres no point or advantage in them promoting an alternative browser.

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This is BS.

I'm not a MS fan but it feels like Apple is a bigger monopoly than Microsoft.

If you don't like Windows, don't use it. There are many options out there. Opera should create there own operating system. I'd check it out.

Personaly as a tech guy I'd prefer to have a media player, web browser, movie maker, photo editor, all built in and let users install other software to their liking. I get what Opera is saying but too bad. I like the Opera Browser but I think IE is eaiser to use for most of my clients and I like that it's preinstalled.

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This is complete crap.

Software gets better by adding features
Apple has done this by adding Gadgets/Widgets, PDF conversion program etc. I and most tech savvy users use Firefox. It is not bundled. Nor do I use Windows Media Player. I use VLC and itunes.

Microsoft due to its own incapabilities have only included marginally functional software with windows. Look at the games, text to speech software or anything else.

The EU commission ruled incorrectly on how bundling in the first place. Build a better mousetrap, and price it right and users will come. Don't stifle progress.

Why don't you sue Nokia for unbundling your browser?

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I love this, "IE is breaking web standards" -- yeah, sure the six-year old version of IE 6 has major standards issues - but let's look at a version of Opera from 2001 and see if it can load even half the new web technologies available now? I'll be happy to criticize Microsoft for waiting too long to release IE 7, because it only increased the period of time before the market saturation point switches from IE 6 to 7 or later, but asking for the EU to require a corporate entity to obey a voluntary set of standards (without even getting into the fact that Microsoft was a founding member of the W3C and arguably did more for implementing the notion of web standards than any other browser company -- not to say that they can't improve, but come on -- you can't use the fact that an outdated, now unsupported piece of software doesn't work with standards to the same degree of accuracy as newer products, especially when that product has a successor that is much more in-line with standards) is insanity.

You know, I get the argument for bundling - though I think it is passe and boring and no longer relevant in the same way it was in 1997, 10 years later -- but this call for forced standards because Opera is angry that no one uses Opera (maybe if they had given it away for free all those years instead of only joining 1995 in 2005, more people would use Opera) is just petty.

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smells like a PR stunt

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This is rather silly on Opera's part. I really like both Opera and IE7, but Opera really has no right and say in what Microsoft should do with it's software. I use Opera on XP, and nothing stops me from doing that.

And if Microsoft took away all the features in it's OS, then who would want it? Many of the included program features in Windows work pretty nice, and are actually useful, at least in Vista are. Should Apple remove components of OS X, to make sure they're competing fairly as well? Why don't we limit what companies can do, just to 'make it fair'?

That's silly. Keep working on making an awesome browser like you have, and consumers will eventually pick something they like better. Personally, I like IE7 the best, and Opera comes a close 2nd. Keep working on it, and you'll be the best.

But not because Microsoft had to drop the only way to reach the internet to get your browser.

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When you buy windows and are forced to "buy" IE with it and do not use IE you are giving more money to the wealthiest nerd in the world!

If I go to a web site that is designed only for IE I leave it. If they are trying to sell me something they have lost a Customer. If they're too lazy or unwilling to realize that Firefox and Netscape and Opera, etc are out there they do not deserve my business.

I have not found anything I want to buy only at one store/site

Kneepayne

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I still can't believe why the foolish interviewer asks "Why are standards important". Because Microsoft is not the creator of those standards, that's why.

As for unbundling, that will produce a Windows version that won't sell well.

Their second stance is right IMHO. If anyone by any means can force AND fine MS for bringing IE up to full standards support, I'm in full support of that "anyone".

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This is the worst kind of jurisdiction-shopping. Find the most Socialist, anti-American court system you can and present an argument that's about as strong as your little brother yelling "HE HIT ME!" -- it doesn't matter whether you actually did, just look at how upset the poor little guy is!

I posted on another blog, but I'll repeat it here: this is nothing more than an invitation for a Socialist EU court to tell an American company to please be less successful so our inferior constituents can steal some of your market share. The worst part is, it's worked before, so now everybody and their mother can tear MS apart in the kangaroo legal system over there. I think MS should just take their ball and go home.

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If you can't beat them, anti-trust them to death.

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Superrrguy: "it feels like Apple is a bigger monopoly than Microsoft"

It doesn't matter what it feels like. Apple is NOT a monopoly.


Christina Warren: "asking for the EU to require a corporate entity to obey a voluntary set of standards is insanity"

Not when violating said voluntary set of standards lead to anti-competitive practices. That is the issue here: Anti-competitive practices.

Christina Warren: "Opera is angry that no one uses Opera"

They are probably more angry that many sites still require MSIE.


rtmey2000: "Why don't you sue Nokia for unbundling your browser?"

Because Nokia is not in a position like that of Microsoft.


michael: "Opera really has no right and say in what Microsoft should do with it's software."

Opera? No. The courts? Yes. Are you not aware that there is such a thing as antitrust laws that deal with anti-competitive practices, for which Microsoft has been convicted in the US and Korea already?

michael: "I use Opera on XP, and nothing stops me from doing that."

Except the fact that many sites still REQUIRE IE.

michael: "IE's free dude."

That's rather naive. You pay for IE as part of Windows.


James: "Find the most Socialist, anti-American court system you can"

Microsoft was convicted of anti-competitive practices in the US as well. How quickly we forget, eh? Is the US court system anti-American too?

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I'll get this out the way. This has more to do with making MS follow web standards, and less to do with the bundling of a web browser (although I'd think that Opera CEO would like to see his browser everywhere, it just ain't going to happen). The choice is up to the user to use whatever browser he/she pleases. I could care less what browser is bundled with Windows, just make sure its complies to the standards for which I have to build applications upon. It shouldn't be up to MS to decide whether or not a browser follows industry standards. THAT IS THE ISSUE.

Ask any web developer/designer how they feel about "developing" for Internet Explorer. I doubt you get a friendly answer.

@Christina Warren - "let's look at a version of Opera from 2001 and see if it can load even half the new web technologies available now?" -- How many updates of Opera have been out since 2001? 8 updates. How many for IE? 1 update. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_timeline. I'd say Opera is doing a fine job of keeping up with the standards. It took MS (who makes billions) almost 5 years to update one of their most used products!

Commenter Zuner pretty much sums it up. There are standards in place, and Microsoft needs to follow them.

I'll say it again, this fight is more about the browser supporting standards, so that when a developer writes an application, it works across all browser, minimizing costs (less development time). I'd say I spend a lot of my time fixing errors that I shouldn't have to b/c I followed the web standards in place. Things are better w/ IE7 and I commend MS for doing a better job.

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I agree, Opera should go after Microsoft about making sure Internet Explorer is standards-compliant. I'm sorry, but ActiveX is NOT a standard, it's a proprietary technology. While it's good for certain things, it also creates more security issues than it fixes. Check out www.secunia.com and see how many security vulnerabilities have NOT been fixed by Microsoft on IE compared to Opera's browser....you'll find that Opera has NO known vulnerabilities, and IE still has MANY that haven't been patched yet...and they're STILL being exploited as we speak. Mozilla's Firefox has its own share of vulnerabilities as well that haven't been patched yet as well.

YOU be the judge...

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