Filed under: Fun, Utilities, Windows, Commercial
TopDesk - Vista Program Switching in XP
by Jason Clarke Feb 24th 2006 at 7:50AM
JK points out that the venerable
application switcher TopDesk has added a mode that allows
you to flip through open windows in much the same way that Windows Vista's new Windows-Tab key combination offers. It's
definitely very cool to look at, and Otaku Software has done a good job of making the application very fast,
considering XP is not geared in a native way to provide a 3D view of open windows. The classic TopDesk views are also
worth a look, providing Expose-style overviews of all open windows.
I have one complaint though, which is that when using TopDesk to flip through open windows, it does not appear to respect the "most recently used ordering" that Windows tracks. What I mean by that is that when I Alt-Tab using the task switcher that is built in to Windows, it scrolls through the open programs starting with the most recently used window, and going back in order of use. This makes it extremely quick to switch between two or three active programs. TopDesk appears not to dynamically order the windows, meaning that each time you invoke the Alt-Tab hot key, you are required to look carefully at each window as it flips past.
TopDesk is a commercial program, and a license costs $9.95 USD, however it has a very generous 30 day trial period to run it through its paces in your daily routine.
[Update February 27, 2006] - James Stewart
from Otaku (makers of TopDesk) dropped by in our comments to point out that TopDesk does use the Z-Order which is how
the built-in Windows Alt-Tab feature determines which window to show next. I probably experienced an isolated glitch on
my system. Don't you just love developers that are willing to engage the user community? I know I do.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Dave M. said 10:05AM on 2-24-2006
I've played with this program. It's a little buggy. It not only froze up, but froze up my computer so bad that I had to physically turn it off in order to get it back.
I think I'll wait for Vista, if I go with Vista at all. I'm still on the fence there.
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David G. Hong said 1:04PM on 2-24-2006
I've found this program a bit buggy too. I have a dual-monitor support and it zooms my entire screen to like 400% (thus, I can only see a certain portion of the screen, usually excluding the close buttons etc).
I think little programs that only do what its meanto do, such as WinRoll (wihch also takes considerably small amount of RAM), is the way to go.
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Mark D. said 8:04PM on 2-24-2006
I haven't had any locking up, with exception to trying to load a heavy program while switching, though i did notice sometimes I can't switch between windows in flip mode unless I middle-click (minimize applying.)
Other than that I found it kind of hindering on my desktop, which has plenty of workspace, but on my laptop it's rather nice. I mapped the hotkey to insert (which neighbors my touchpad) and can switch quickly and cleanly. I'm actually rather impressed with it overall, it lacks the normal hang-before-activating window caching issus other tiling/expose-style programs have, and it runsi jus as quick on my Radeon IGP 320 as it does on my 9500 pro.
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Pete said 2:45PM on 2-25-2006
no problem here I have been using it. it does not freeze on me or anything. it runs fine I think it real cool
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bala said 4:52AM on 2-27-2006
This one really rocks...its better than Small Windows and easier to use!
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James Stewart said 11:02PM on 2-27-2006
Hi, I'm from Otaku Software, the developers of TopDesk.
Jason: Thanks for mentioning TopDesk :). I don't quite understand what you mean regarding the "most recently used ordering". In flip mode TopDesk uses the z-order of the windows, which is what standard Alt-Tab switching uses.
Dave/David: 99% of the time TopDesk crashes and graphical glitches are caused by badly written video drivers, so I'd suggest installing the latest drivers for your particular cards. If you'd like to drop us a line we'd be happy to help fix the problem.
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Jason Clarke said 12:10AM on 2-28-2006
Hi James!Regarding the Z ordering, I'm not sure what's going on on my system; but strangely when I'm running TopDesk, Alt-Tab does not bring my previously used window as the first option. I'm willing to admit that as a utility freak, there's a good chance something else on my system is getting in the way. Thanks for dropping by!
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James Stewart said 2:59AM on 2-28-2006
Jason: I think I understand what you mean now. TopDesk doesn't bring up the previously used window (e.g. the next window in the z-order) first because we've found it's confusing for users (imagine the topmost window disappearing when you press Alt-Tab).
While TopDesk is a task-switching replacement, the objective of the flip mode is to work more like the Vista Flip3D feature, not Alt-Tab.
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Dave M. said 10:06AM on 2-28-2006
You know, I just love the old Video Driver excuse. I have the latest drivers for my video card. I installed them when I put in my new card about 2 weeks ago.
If the software was something I really really needed, sure I'd drop by and help you solve the problem. However, it's a frill that I'll probably turn off of Vista after about 2 days along with all the other frills that are in Vista.
As to my first post. I'm not saying it's going to crash on everybody's system. I'm just saying that my experience was that it did crash and it took the entire system down with it. That shouldn't happen in this day and age. It would really suck of you are working on a term paper, hadn't saved and the system freezes due to TopDesk.
The post was just a warning of a potential. If you are not writing that final term paper and don't mind the potential of a full system crash, then more power to ya.
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Jason Clarke said 12:12PM on 2-28-2006
James - thanks for the clarification; I appreciate you taking the time to figure out what I was nattering on about! :-)
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James Stewart said 3:47AM on 3-01-2006
Dave M: You should realize that when developers tell you it's probably the video driver, they're not trying to pass the buck. A full system crash/freeze can only happen if something goes wrong in the kernel, and only drivers have access to the kernel. Video drivers are notoriously buggy, and while having the latest drivers is a suggested fix, it doesn't mean that they don't still have bugs.
If you think about it, why would I tell you it's the video driver if it was something that could be fixed? If the issue was a bug in TopDesk I'd say so, because then all it takes to solve the problem is a bit of hard work, and at the end I'd have a chance at gaining another customer. Remember, not all developers are Microsoft, some actually care about their users :).
If you don't have time to work through the problem, would you be able to tell me your system specs (CPU, RAM, video card/driver, software you use, etc..) so I can investigate the issue myself?
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Dave M. said 1:16PM on 3-01-2006
Sure, my system is a P4 3.2GHz, 1GB RAM, ATI Radeon X800 series. Software I use? To scratch the surface: iTunes, Intellij IDEA, OpenOffice, Thunderbird, Firefox. Games include: GTA:SA, World of Warcraft, Dungeon Siege II. Just to name the most commonly opened apps.
So let me see if I understand this. Your software doesn't touch the kernal at all? I was under the impression that to hook into Windows based features like Alt-Tab, you need to hook into the kernel. I can't remember the name of the hooks used, but similar hooks are used to create rootkits. (I'm not saying that TopDesk is a rootkit, just that there are hooks in Windows that allow you to replace Windows functionality)
So if you are not hooking into the kernel to take over the Alt-Tab functionality, how do you do Alt-Tab application switching without Windows coming in and attempting to use it's default Alt-Tab code?
So are you saying that TopDesk is completely bug free here? That it's "impossible" for TopDesk to lock the system up completely? I'm sorry, but I find that really hard to believe. As a developer myself, I have found many ways to kill Windows. Some even in calls that should have been completely safe to make.
The fact that it only took about an hour to lock up my computer with TopDesk running and without TopDesk running, I run for weeks on end without having any problems at all (this is no exaggeration), I have to assume that the problem is in TopDesk, not video drivers or other possible gremlin. Unless of course, the gremlin has it out for TopDesk. :)
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James Stewart said 9:00PM on 3-01-2006
Dave M: Please read my post again, I think you may have misunderstood my point. I didn't say TopDesk is bug free, I said that to trigger a crash with the degree of severity that your experiencing it would have to be a problem with something that touches the kernel.
The system hooks you're talking about hook into windows functionality, but they don't give you kernel access. It's possible to lock the keyboard and mouse via a bug in a system hook, but not to "crash and take the entire system down". This could happen with Win95, but not with XP.
TopDesk doesn't touch the kernel itself, but it does use DirectX, which in turn touches the kernel. If there's a buggy video driver running, it's very possible that a DirectX function that TopDesk calls could cause a crash/lockup. Again, *I'm not passing the buck here, or say that TopDesk doesn't have any bugs, I'm just trying to explain the source of the problem*. As a programmer, you'll understand that the underlying system must be stable for a program to function correctly. Asking a user to upgrade to the latest drivers ensures that TopDesk is running on the most stable base possible, and helps us narrow the search for an issue if it's not fixed by the new driver.
Please understand that this isn't about fobbing off users. All I was trying to point out is that it's been my experience that 99% of the time a full system lockup/crash is caused by a buggy video driver (or codec). If the user is running the latest drivers and still seeing the problem, then we'll gladly look into the issue for them, and do our best to resolve it. Feel free to check out our forums - we've had users experience this kind of problem before, and we still offer them the same level of support to them as anyone else.
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John Doe said 5:39AM on 5-05-2006
Has anyone ever had this problem?
So I have Firefox open and everything is working fine. Then I use TopDesk to switch windows. When I switch back to Firefox and I try to type in one of the browser windows (say google for example) it will type into the find box, even though I never opened it up in the first place. I will not be able to type into the window, unless I restart Firefox.
I didn't think anything of this as well, but since the Firefox incident, I suppose this is part of the same bug. When I use trillian, and I switch to a chat box, the cursor will not be in the type box, which gets annoying to have to then use my touchpad mouse to scroll to the box to type.
Anyone else have this problem, or is it just me?
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